War has started...

[Vox]

Asis, you know I just have to be me [img]smile.gif[/img]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> We sanction people like Saddam all the f**king time. We create monsters and then get pissy when they stop doing what we want them to.
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Yes, we do and so does every other country and weve done it both for altruistic and not so altuistic reasons. The Diff is we suck at it, and being the guilt ridden oprah fed mess we are we try to fix it. Should we just say sorry big mistake and walk away?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
- our economy is a disaster;
- Saddam tried to assissinate our leaders daddy and he is pissed. And our president was stupid enough to say it out loud publically on at least one occasion;
- They have a hell of a oil field. And oil makes the engines run, because solar energy is renewable and therefore not profitable.
- We can't bomb the hell out anyone else right now and we *need* to show we are a superpower dag-nab-it.
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I) How does this help our economy? In what way? The Billions this will cost will destroy DubYa Just like it did his daddy.

II) He also tried to assissinate a president. I think we should of done the same. But of course that would of been against the rules. Ha! Mwhhaaa, Ha, sorry couldnt help it.

III) Yes, it's always about the oil. Of course no one has shown any crediable proof it is and thats because we know how effective the US goverment is at keeping a secret. [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

IV) Please, this is just hypebole.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a political war and shame on us for that. If this was a friggin war to save the people we would have done it when Bush Sr. or earlier was president.
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They are ALL Political wars. We didn't do it with The Big Bush because he didnt have the balls and we thought destablisation of Iraq would ruin the oil market (See: Peace for oil!)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> N. Korea is testing it's nukes is a bit hypocritical no matter how you look at it.
</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

One nut case at a time. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 21, 2003 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Vox ]</font>

[Vox]

Thank God! Someone who can quote!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Quite frankly, America is the biggest superpower in the world. There are too many countries under our "protection" </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, and were such bad, bad people for being a superpower and protecting people. Bad superpower!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> No matter how many times Bush says that the goverment will be in the hands of the Iraqi people </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes and the other 60 heads of states who have said the same thing are are just mesmerised by our superpowers!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">it's an outright lie </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the vast array of other nations we rule with an Iron fist agree! Um or is this another crystal ball projection?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Simple economics. War stimulates the economy. The stock market shot up over 200 points once war officially started. Bush has screwed up the economy so much that he feels this is a valid way to fix it. Pffft.
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Yes maybe in 1940, but name which war since has caused an american economy to prosper? I'm no fan of The Bush, but he's a victem of the Tech Bubble. He hasn't screwed up anything, he just ain't fixed it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's nothing we haven't done before. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that it hasn't happened yet. I guess Saddam has reason to be paranoid with security.
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agreed.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is a known fact that Bush had a private meeting with the heads of the American oil companies to decide who would take charge of the Iraqi oil. Congress is pissed about this because they were not notified, and only heard of it after the fact.
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Cite? proof? well known to whom?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Going to war with North Korea will be BAD </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">North Korea is a terrirtory of China </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think they might disagree but I don't [img]smile.gif[/img]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I've heard things from a friend of mine who has connections high up in the US Military about some tactics that are being talked about already, and they make me sick. </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Unnamed sorces' " aren't they just so handy! But to give credit where its due and its no secret we have "Tactics" in case we get invaded by friggin' Togoland. It's called being prepared.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> My only comfort is that there's no way in hell Bush will be in office for a second term.
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Yes, And we won't have to worry about an america president having a hidden agenda again!

Rofl! yeah maybe we'll get a democrat! ROTFFL!!

[Shadowcat]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Vox:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is a known fact that Bush had a private meeting with the heads of the American oil companies to decide who would take charge of the Iraqi oil. Congress is pissed about this because they were not notified, and only heard of it after the fact.
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Cite? proof? well known to whom?
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Point. I swear to you that I heard it on the news at some point between Wednesday and Friday morning. After spending an hour looking for an article that might mention the event, I have given up. Whether the reporter made it up, was forced to bury the story, or if it was a product of my deliousions remains to be seen. At this point, if it's not part of a major story that is supported by every news station then it is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

[erisesoteric]

OK, I'm not in this discussion. I believe I have made my position clear, and it's not going to change. And I completely understand that my having a position is not going to change the minds of people on "the other side" of the issue. Besides which, the points for and against have been made much more eloquently, by people much more informed than me, than I could ever hope to do myself.

But I hope that in stating and disputing our positions, that both sides remember that we are both fighting for the same thing. Democracy. The hawks believe that the war must be fought on the world stage, the doves are fighting just as hard to keep democracy, freedom of speech, and all that stuff firmly in place here at home.

The means and the ways differ, but I think that everyone here (I won't speak for Bush [img]wink.gif[/img] ) wants the same thing. Freedom.

All I ask is that we remember this.

[crazy a]

I have to concur with that. Gollum and I went around and around about this last time. (Speaking of which, I know she said her internet time was limited, but I thought she would've shown up by now. [img]wink.gif[/img] )

I've said about all I can say, and I think my position is clear on the whole thing. (If not, feel free to ask me questions here or on PM.)

Many of us say being diplomatic is the way. Some of us feel there's a time to be diplomatic and a time to use force. We're obviously not gonna agree about what methods are best and when.

But I think it is safe to say that, in general, we all want the same thing in the end.

[erisesoteric]

Peace in the end, and our folks home safe.

[img]wink.gif[/img]

(See how good I'm being? Not one word about Bush being hoisted on his or anyone else pitard!)

(I just blew it, didn't I? Damn!)

[crazy a]

(I don't know. What's a pitard?) LOL

[erisesoteric]

(Please excuse me, I misspelled the word. According to Dictionary.com :

pe?tard Pronunciation Key (p-t?rd)
n.
1. A small bell-shaped bomb used to breach a gate or wall.
2. A loud firecracker.


[French p?tard, from Old French, from peter, to break wind, from pet, a breaking of wind, from Latin pditum, from neuter past participle of pdere, to break wind. See pezd- in Indo-European Roots.]

Word History: The French used p?tard, ?a loud discharge of intestinal gas,? for a kind of infernal engine for blasting through the gates of a city. ?To be hoist by one's own petard,? a now proverbial phrase apparently originating with Shakespeare's Hamlet (around 1604) not long after the word entered English (around 1598), means ?to blow oneself up with one's own bomb, be undone by one's own devices.? The French noun pet, ?fart,? developed regularly from the Latin noun pditum, from the Indo-European root *pezd-, ?fart.?)

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 22, 2003 09:17 AM: Message edited by: erisesoteric ]</font>

[Shadowcat]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Vox:
Yes, we do and so does every other country and weve done it both for altruistic and not so altuistic reasons. The Diff is we suck at it, and being the guilt ridden oprah fed mess we are we try to fix it. Should we just say sorry big mistake and walk away?</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

I try so hard not to get into these conversations, but I feel that I must put my two cents in.

Quite frankly, America is the biggest superpower in the world. There are too many countries under our "protection". I'm just a youngin', but even I remember some of the tyrants that we've helped to put into power, just to have a foreign government that owes us loyalty. I fear what is going to happen to Iraq. No matter how many times Bush says that the goverment will be in the hands of the Iraqi people after this war, it's an outright lie. We will set up a new leader, with a new form of government. We will move our troops in permanently, and Iraq will become a puppet state. I don't approve of Saddam, but I'm not sure the next guy we put in place is going to be a shining hero, either.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
I) How does this help our economy? In what way? The Billions this will cost will destroy DubYa Just like it did his daddy.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple economics. War stimulates the economy. The stock market shot up over 200 points once war officially started. Bush has screwed up the economy so much that he feels this is a valid way to fix it. Pffft.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
II) He also tried to assissinate a president. I think we should of done the same. But of course that would of been against the rules. Ha! Mwhhaaa, Ha, sorry couldnt help it.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's nothing we haven't done before. Quite frankly, I'm surprised that it hasn't happened yet. I guess Saddam has reason to be paranoid with security.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
III) Yes, it's always about the oil. Of course no one has shown any crediable proof it is and thats because we know how effective the US goverment is at keeping a secret. [img]rolleyes.gif[/img] </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is a known fact that Bush had a private meeting with the heads of the American oil companies to decide who would take charge of the Iraqi oil. Congress is pissed about this because they were not notified, and only heard of it after the fact.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> N. Korea is testing it's nukes is a bit hypocritical no matter how you look at it.
</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
One nut case at a time. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Going to war with North Korea will be BAD. It will be far worse than the first Korean War. North Korea is a terrirtory of China, and under their protection. If we attack Korea, we will be at war with China. Bush wouldn't be unhappy about that. He's not very good at hiding how much he hates the Commies. I've heard things from a friend of mine who has connections high up in the US Military about some tactics that are being talked about already, and they make me sick. This thing with Iraq will be pretty compared to what will happen with Asia.

I wish there were a little island I could move to. At least then I wouldn't be ashamed at what my own country is turning into. My only comfort is that there's no way in hell Bush will be in office for a second term.

[crazy a]

"Intestinal gas". Jeez, next thing you know, we'll be talking about TAMPONS....